Troilus and Cressida Act 1 Scene 2: The Pageant of Troy

Bronwyn Barnwell joins us to talk about Troilus and Cressida, the pageant of Troy, and why we all love Pandarus. Transcript at https://wordpress.com/post/leevineyard.wordpress.com/26

Transcript

(Lee as) CRESSIDA

Good morrow, uncle Pandarus.

(Bronwyn as) PANDARUS

Good morrow, cousin Cressid: what do you talk of?

Good morrow, Alexander. 

Sound of a door

How do you, cousin? When

were you at Ilium?

CRESSIDA

This morning, uncle.

PANDARUS

What were you talking of when I came? Was Hector

armed and gone ere ye came to Ilium? Helen was not

up, was she?

CRESSIDA

Hector was gone, but Helen was not up.

PANDARUS

Even so: Hector was stirring early.

CRESSIDA

That were we talking of, and of his anger.

PANDARUS

Was he angry?

CRESSIDA

So he says here.

PANDARUS

True, he was so: I know the cause too: he’ll lay

about him to-day, I can tell them that: and there’s

Troilus will not come far behind him: let them take

heed of Troilus, I can tell them that too.

CRESSIDA

What, is he angry too?

PANDARUS

Who, Troilus? Troilus is the better man of the two.

CRESSIDA

O Jupiter! there’s no comparison.

PANDARUS

What, not between Troilus and Hector? Do you know a

man if you see him?

CRESSIDA

Ay, if I ever saw him before and knew him.

PANDARUS

Well, I say Troilus is Troilus.

CRESSIDA

Then you say as I say; for, I am sure, he is not Hector.

PANDARUS

No, nor Hector is not Troilus in some degrees.

CRESSIDA

‘Tis just to each of them; he is himself.

PANDARUS

Himself! Alas, poor Troilus! I would he were.

CRESSIDA

So he is.

PANDARUS

Condition, I had gone barefoot to India.

CRESSIDA

He is not Hector.

PANDARUS

Himself! no, he’s not himself: would a’ were

himself! Well, the gods are above; time must friend

or end: well, Troilus, well: I would my heart were

in her body. No, Hector is not a better man than Troilus.

CRESSIDA

Excuse me.

PANDARUS

He is elder.

CRESSIDA

Pardon me, pardon me.

PANDARUS

Th’ other’s not come to’t; you shall tell me another

tale, when th’ other’s come to’t. Hector shall not

have his wit this year.

CRESSIDA

He shall not need it, if he have his own.

PANDARUS

Nor his qualities.

CRESSIDA

No matter.

PANDARUS

Nor his beauty.

CRESSIDA

‘Twould not become him; his own’s better.

PANDARUS

You have no judgment, niece: Helen

herself swore th’ other day, that Troilus, for

a brown favour–for so ’tis, I must confess,–

not brown neither,–

CRESSIDA

No, but brown.

PANDARUS

‘Faith, to say truth, brown and not brown.

CRESSIDA

To say the truth, true and not true.

PANDARUS

She praised his complexion above Paris.

CRESSIDA

Why, Paris hath colour enough.

PANDARUS

So he has.

CRESSIDA

Then Troilus should have too much: if she praised

him above, his complexion is higher than his; he

having colour enough, and the other higher, is too

flaming a praise for a good complexion. I had as

lief Helen’s golden tongue had commended Troilus for

a copper nose.

PANDARUS

I swear to you. I think Helen loves him better than Paris.

CRESSIDA

Then she’s a merry Greek indeed.

PANDARUS

Nay, I am sure she does. She came to him th’ other

day into the compassed window,–and, you know, he

has not past three or four hairs on his chin,–

CRESSIDA

Indeed, a tapster’s arithmetic may soon bring his

particulars therein to a total.

PANDARUS

Why, he is very young: and yet will he, within

three pound, lift as much as his brother Hector.

CRESSIDA

Is he so young a man and so old a lifter?

PANDARUS

But to prove to you that Helen loves him: she came

and puts me her white hand to his cloven chin–

CRESSIDA

Juno have mercy! how came it cloven?

PANDARUS

Why, you know ’tis dimpled: I think his smiling

becomes him better than any man in all Phrygia.

CRESSIDA

O, he smiles valiantly.

PANDARUS

Does he not?

CRESSIDA

O yes, an ’twere a cloud in autumn.

PANDARUS

Why, go to, then: but to prove to you that Helen

loves Troilus,–

CRESSIDA

Troilus will stand to the proof, if you’ll

prove it so.

PANDARUS

Troilus! why, he esteems her no more than I esteem

an addle egg.

CRESSIDA

If you love an addle egg as well as you love an idle

head, you would eat chickens i’ the shell.

PANDARUS

I cannot choose but laugh, to think how she tickled

his chin: indeed, she has a marvellous white hand, I

must needs confess,–

CRESSIDA

Without the rack.

PANDARUS

And she takes upon her to spy a white hair on his chin.

CRESSIDA

Alas, poor chin! many a wart is richer.

PANDARUS

But there was such laughing! Queen Hecuba laughed

that her eyes ran o’er.

CRESSIDA

With mill-stones.

PANDARUS

And Cassandra laughed.

CRESSIDA

But there was more temperate fire under the pot of

her eyes: did her eyes run o’er too?

PANDARUS

And Hector laughed.

CRESSIDA

At what was all this laughing?

PANDARUS

Marry, at the white hair that Helen spied on Troilus’ chin.

CRESSIDA

An’t had been a green hair, I should have laughed

too.

PANDARUS

They laughed not so much at the hair as at his pretty answer.

CRESSIDA

What was his answer?

PANDARUS

Quoth she, ‘Here’s but two and fifty hairs on your

chin, and one of them is white.

CRESSIDA

This is her question.

PANDARUS

That’s true; make no question of that. ‘Two and

fifty hairs’ quoth he, ‘and one white: that white

hair is my father, and all the rest are his sons.’

‘Jupiter!’ quoth she, ‘which of these hairs is Paris,

my husband? ‘The forked one,’ quoth he, ‘pluck’t

out, and give it him.’ But there was such laughing!

and Helen so blushed, an Paris so chafed, and all the

rest so laughed, that it passed.

CRESSIDA

So let it now; for it has been while going by.

PANDARUS

Well, cousin. I told you a thing yesterday; think on’t.

CRESSIDA

So I do.

PANDARUS

I’ll be sworn ’tis true; he will weep you, an ’twere

a man born in April.

CRESSIDA

And I’ll spring up in his tears, an ’twere a nettle

against May.

Sound of horns and a crowd

PANDARUS

Hark! they are coming from the field: shall we

stand up here, and see them as they pass toward

Ilium? good niece, do, sweet niece Cressida.

CRESSIDA

At your pleasure.

PANDARUS

Here, here, here’s an excellent place; here we may

see most bravely: I’ll tell you them all by their

names as they pass by; but mark Troilus above the rest.

CRESSIDA

Speak not so loud.

PANDARUS

That’s Aeneas: is not that a brave man? he’s one of

the flowers of Troy, I can tell you: but mark

Troilus; you shall see anon.

CRESSIDA

Who’s that?

PANDARUS

That’s Antenor: he has a shrewd wit, I can tell you;

and he’s a man good enough, he’s one o’ the soundest

judgments in whosoever, and a proper man of person.

When comes Troilus? I’ll show you Troilus anon: if

he see me, you shall see him nod at me.

CRESSIDA

Will he give you the nod?

PANDARUS

You shall see.

CRESSIDA

If he do, the rich shall have more.

PANDARUS

That’s Hector, that, that, look you, that; there’s a

fellow! Go thy way, Hector! There’s a brave man,

niece. O brave Hector! Look how he looks! there’s

a countenance! is’t not a brave man?

CRESSIDA

O, a brave man!

PANDARUS

Is a’ not? it does a man’s heart good. Look you

what hacks are on his helmet! look you yonder, do

you see? look you there: there’s no jesting;

there’s laying on, take’t off who will, as they say:

there be hacks!

CRESSIDA

Be those with swords?

PANDARUS

Swords! any thing, he cares not; an the devil come

to him, it’s all one: by God’s lid, it does one’s

heart good. Yonder comes Paris, yonder comes Paris.

Look ye yonder, niece; is’t not a gallant man too,

is’t not? Why, this is brave now. Who said he came

hurt home to-day? he’s not hurt: why, this will do

Helen’s heart good now, ha! Would I could see

Troilus now! You shall see Troilus anon.

CRESSIDA

Who’s that?

PANDARUS

That’s Helenus. I marvel where Troilus is. That’s

Helenus. I think he went not forth to-day. That’s Helenus.

CRESSIDA

Can Helenus fight, uncle?

PANDARUS

Helenus? no. Yes, he’ll fight indifferent well. I

marvel where Troilus is. Hark! do you not hear the

people cry ‘Troilus’? Helenus is a priest.

CRESSIDA

What sneaking fellow comes yonder?

PANDARUS

Where? yonder? that’s Deiphobus. ‘Tis Troilus!

there’s a man, niece! Hem! Brave Troilus! the

prince of chivalry!

CRESSIDA

Peace, for shame, peace!

PANDARUS

Mark him; note him. O brave Troilus! Look well upon

him, niece: look you how his sword is bloodied, and

his helm more hacked than Hector’s, and how he looks,

and how he goes! O admirable youth! he ne’er saw

three and twenty. Go thy way, Troilus, go thy way!

Had I a sister were a grace, or a daughter a goddess,

he should take his choice. O admirable man! Paris?

Paris is dirt to him; and, I warrant, Helen, to

change, would give an eye to boot.

CRESSIDA

Here come more.

Forces pass

PANDARUS

Asses, fools, dolts! chaff and bran, chaff and bran!

porridge after meat! I could live and die i’ the

eyes of Troilus. Ne’er look, ne’er look: the eagles

are gone: crows and daws, crows and daws! I had

rather be such a man as Troilus than Agamemnon and

all Greece.

CRESSIDA

There is among the Greeks Achilles, a better man than Troilus.

PANDARUS

Achilles! a drayman, a porter, a very camel.

CRESSIDA

Well, well.

PANDARUS

‘Well, well!’ why, have you any discretion? have

you any eyes? Do you know what a man is? Is not

birth, beauty, good shape, discourse, manhood,

learning, gentleness, virtue, youth, liberality,

and such like, the spice and salt that season a man?

CRESSIDA

Ay, a minced man: and then to be baked with no date

in the pie, for then the man’s date’s out.

PANDARUS

You are such a woman! one knows not at what ward you

lie.

CRESSIDA

Upon my back, to defend my belly; upon my wit, to

defend my wiles; upon my secrecy, to defend mine

honesty; my mask, to defend my beauty; and you, to

defend all these: and at all these wards I lie, at a

thousand watches.

PANDARUS

Say one of your watches.

CRESSIDA

Nay, I’ll watch you for that; and that’s one of the

chiefest of them too: if I cannot ward what I would

not have hit, I can watch you for telling how I took

the blow; unless it swell past hiding, and then it’s

past watching.

PANDARUS

You are such another!

Sound of a door

(Lee as) Boy

Sir, my lord would instantly speak with you.

PANDARUS

Where?

Boy

At your own house; there he unarms him.

PANDARUS

Good boy, tell him I come.

I doubt he be hurt. Fare ye well, good niece.

CRESSIDA

Adieu, uncle.

PANDARUS

I’ll be with you, niece, by and by.

CRESSIDA

To bring, uncle?

PANDARUS

Ay, a token from Troilus.

CRESSIDA

By the same token, you are a bawd.

End scene music.

Lee: Hello listeners, welcome to Scenic Review. That was Act 1 Scene 2 of Troilus and Cressida. My name is Lee Vineyard. You just heard me as Cressida, and “Boy” for a couple lines at the end. Joining us today is Bronwyn Barnwell as Pandarus. Bronwyn has a masters and Shakespeare and creativity and she played Pandarus at Shakespeare at Winedale in 2014. Hi Bronwyn, how are you doing?

Bronwyn: I’m doing great, hello Lee. Thank you for having me.

Lee: I know you have a lot of knowledge and thoughts about this play.

Bronwyn: Thoughts definitely, knowledge debateable.

Lee: So I asked you to pick a scene to do, and this is what you chose. Why did you choose the scene?

Bronwyn: Well, I think that as it’s the second scene in the play it really sets up two of the characters. Pandarus has been in the first scene as well but that scene has been a lot more about Troilus‘ struggles with his emotions and loving Cressida. And Pandarus just being like “you can do something about that you know.” This scene not only introduces us to Cressida, it also has so many parts to it. 

I think the most important part is this pageant of the Trojans that comes through. And that is mirrored later in the play which I can talk more about in a second. It also, in a very comical and subtextual way, sets up the way the play frames gender. It sets up the way courting happens during war. It’s just got so many interesting facets to it. So the pageant of Troy, which I think is one of the most interesting parts of the entire play because Pandarus is just speaking kind of gibberish for just pages of text, and Cressida is standing there and she humors him and she pokes fun at him. We see a woman who is not necessarily going to be led into a decision she doesn’t want to go into. She’s very pithy and feisty and comes back at him with all very sane and witty responses. 

And I love this scene because, the other thing about it is, Troilus and Cressida is rooted in the mythos of Helen of Troy and all of these huge huge people from mythology, Agamemnon, Achilles, you know, bigger than life. But the play isn’t about them. The play is about Troilus and Cressida, who more than likely you have not heard about, and it’s because they are remarkably unremarkable people. Most of this scene and other scenes that he’s in Pandarus is trying to convince everyone how beautiful Cressida is. Everyone’s like “the most beautiful woman in the world” he’s like “Who? Cressida?” and they’re like “No. Helen. Who are you talking about?” And this whole scene he’s trying to convince Cressida how amazing Troilus is, and then when he walks in the room he doesn’t even know who it is! He’s like “oh it’s Deiphobus”. He’s just completely ordinary. And I think that that is what this play is so incredible at, taking the ordinary and the family problems and those things and exploding them into these huge things, these huge characters, the Trojan war, I mean it’s just untouchable really. But it makes it so grounded because of that. And there is a part later, we can look up what the scene is exactly–

( Lee: Listeners, we did look it up later. It’s 5.1. )

Bronwyn: –Where there’s a little bit of a pageant of the Greeks that Thersites does. And they’re drunk, they’ve been drinking  all night with a with Hector who has come to visit them and they’re walking through, and instead of a rapportera about how incredible they are and how, you know, sexy they are and all of these things, Thersites is like “I would rather be the most disgusting thing in the world then these people.” I look at Thersites, who is a slave on the Greek side — the lowest but the smartest at the same time on the Greek boundary — I see him as a foil of Pandarus as well. They both bring the comedy on each side and they both are dismissed and kicked aside, one as a bawd and one as a low down bastard, as he later claims to be. And because of that and because they both get this pageantry and narration bit I think it’s really important to pay attention to as kind of bookends of the play.

Lee: Yeah, you kind of get that clown humor versus fool humor with those two. With the clown humor being Pandarus with the comedy of errors and being a little bit silly and stupid, versus Thersites getting that that comedy of cleverness and being the one outsmarting other people.

Bronwyn: Yeah, I actually think there are three tiers as well in this play. Ajax actually being bottom. There are like three tiers of humor in Shakespeare’s plays — and this is what I wanted to write my dissertation and it kind of morphed into something else. But the idea that there is always a character that everyone laughs at, and the audience laughs at too, that is unaware that they are funny. That’s Ajax in this play. So he kind gets pooh poohed the time because he’s just intellectually way lower than everyone else. He’s compared to animals all the time, just huge animals that have zero brains. That’s the way we’re looking at him.

And then up from him is Pandarus who is very funny and the people within the play think he’s funny, and the audience thinks he’s funny, but no one’s laughing at him. He’s more entertaining. And then there’s Thersites who is like the overseer of humor. The audience is laughing with Thersites at the rest of the characters. And I think you can find that structure in most plays that involve a bit of humor. 

Lee: Sometime, we can read a different scene from a different play and pick up on that thread.

Bronwyn: Absolutely, Love’s Labours Lost!

Lee: Woo! Let’s talk about gender in this scene, cause there’s some stuff going on.

Bronwyn: There is, and what I think is really interesting is that Pandarus lays out a list of what a man is. He says: “birth, beauty, good shape, discourse, manhood, learning, gentleness, virtue, youth, liberality.” There’s a lot of different things, and what’s funny is that he’s asking her if she’s ever seen a man but all these things are like, mostly invisible. You know, you can’t tell gentleness from someone’s exterior necessarily. But what’s great is Cressida’s reply in regards to the” spice and seasoning” of a man. And her being like yeah, a man made of minced meat, like a minced man. But she follows up with a list of what women is, and what’s important to them. 

So, their belly (where they give birth), their wiles, their honesty, and their beauty. That’s what women get. And I think that that is so apparent in this play too. Because the most important thing, the first thing listed, is their belly, so the reproductive abilities. And then their honesty is also listed which Cressida will later ~destroy~ apparently, because she’s false. So she will later disappear because she goes against these things.

Lee: There’s definitely kind of a homoerotic vibe in this like —

Bronwyn: Oh yeah 

Lee: This relationship between Pandarus and Troilus 

Bronwyn: The gayest. The gayest!

Lee: Does that carry through the rest of the play, or–

Bronwyn: I mean Pandarus should have been named Antonio, that would have made more sense. There’s a few lines that very much clue me in to Pandarus definitely not being a  straight character. Absolutely.

Lee: From this scene it feels like there is space to go in a few different directions. Whether that’s going to be like a sort of a kind of homophobic joke like “haha he doesn’t realize but he seems gay” kind of thing, but also the space for like a more genuine–

Bronwyn: Yeah. Well I have seen the play twice — two different companies. I saw the one by the Royal Shakespeare Company five times in a month because it only played for a month and it was one of the most fantastic things I’ve ever seen in my entire life. And I also saw it at the American Shakespeare center which was also one of the most fantastic things I’d seen at time. In all my time I’ve never seen anyone take Pandarus in a direction that makes him feel closeted at all, or that that the other characters dont accept him. Very much always just very free and loving and caring. And he is, I will say the original creepy uncle, and that’s because he busts in on his niece after she’s lost her virginity and like, is checking the sheets to make sure it’s all good and done. But in terms of his love for Troilus it does seem quite pure.

When I played Pandarus I just leaned into it. I mean there’s only so much you can do as well with performative gender  and performative sexuality and things like that on stage when youre doing what lines are written. But in terms of visualizing more, we had the Trojans in blue and we had been Greeks in red and I was wearing a very very sparkly purple. To show that I was kind of in the middle of these things. Not necessarily in the middle of the Trojans and Greeks, but the middle of all of the sexual business of play. I do think that it’s hard to ignore his lines where he says “I would my heart were in her body.” I wish that I could love you in an acceptable way, I guess, in that framework. So there is a bit of homophobia in the world, but I think that every time I’ve seen it played no one’s really gone in that direction and always gone for him just really, really loving troilus but wanting troilus to be happy. Like that kind of love as well. But I mean obviously like he’s like “all of these men, are — look at all of them, they’re so great.” He even likes Paris, no one likes Paris! And he’s like “What, he’s okay.” 

Lee: He’s got a lot of opinions about what men are hot!

Bronwyn: He does. Helenus does not make his list, though.

Lee: Do you think– maybe Helenus is his ex.

 Bronwyn: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely he’s like “he can’t fight, that’s why we broke up,” 

Lee: “We broke up and then he became a priest”

Bronwyn: I mean, and at the root of it he is a bawd. He dies of syphilis at the end of the play so he’s been around too, he’s got some venereal diseases. But I think also the syphilis is like and a metaphor for the rest– he takes on the disease of everyone essentially in the play. all the hatred all the blame he gets thrown with all of it and he dies in the non violent sort of way. So it is very interesting about sexuality and gender in this play and how the women are bobbles of war essentially they’re just tokens and they’re blamed with starting it. Cressida’s blamed because she has to choose her safety over love. but neither of them started the war, and neither of them kept it going 

Lee: You performed this– well you performed the whole play, but — this scene on stage. So what do you think are the biggest performance challenges of this scene?

Bronwyn: Well the fact that no one knows what you’re talking about is a huge one! I would say you know after me reading this scene about eight million times and asking multiple questions and really taking my time with it a full summer I know what it means, but hearing it for the first time especially scene two after you’ve already had a seen a Pandarus speaking kind of nonsense about the various levels of baking bread and cake and stuff, it’s a lot. It is a lot. So I would say the biggest challenge is taking your time and really focusing on vocal tonality so that if the audience doesn’t necessarily know what you mean that they get the vibe of what you might be saying or at least the fact that you’re joking. So I would say that was the biggest challenge. The second challenge is just blocking the scene.

Lee: Yeah

Bronwyn: And Troilus and Cressida has a lot of this issue because there a lot of dense political talks but they’re not like political talks from the Henriad where they’re like “and we will march on blah blah blah,” They’re just like, talking about really out there themes and, like, time and rank and all of this stuff and it’s just dense. So to have two people, and that’s the only two people on stage, and you can’t be like sitting down… I still have the video when I was in it, and we just kind of ended up, like, circling each other on the stage, which is not great blocking and I don’t recommend that framing. But I think I was just trying to be as lively as possible. When Pandarus is telling the story about the white hair on the chin it’s got to be the funniest thing in the world to him and therefore the funniest thing in the world to the audience and the funniest thing to Cressida that he’s still talking about it. And she’s literally like “please. stop the story. It’s been going on for way way too long.” 

So you have to find those nuggets of when the characters tell you how they are feeling and see how you can meet that end. So I was like– I mean I toned it down here because my house is, I mean, there are people living here so I’m not gonna scream super loudly– but I was like all over the place during this scene. Just loud and in your face and I think Pandarus’s one of two characters that gets to look out to the audience and say “get a load of this” and so I did a lot of that, I did a lot of audience interaction, um, I was wearing a very swooshy dress. Yeah, just timing. Pace.

Lee:  How did y’all stage the pageant part? Did you have them on stage or are just off?

Bronwy: So I did this at Shakespeare at Winedale, and they have the best stage in the world.

Lee: It’s true.

Bronwyn: So there is just the main part of the stage and then there’s an upstairs that has a few windows that open up so people can pop out, and also space on the upstairs thing for people to stand. and then there is a discovery space in the back that opens up and the doors in the back, since the stage is in a barn, it opens out to a field in the back. I don’t remember if we had the doors open all the way but I kind of feel like we did because the pageantiers of Troy all of the Trojan men walked through the audience up onto the stage and out the back door as I talked about them. not only that, but we had citizens in the windows cheering them on so it was like a whole– I was having to scream these lines, this absolute gibberish, to kind of be heard over all of the other noise that was in the room. So it kind of raised the stakes of everything which I think is really great for the scene too, because you’re just waiting for the moment for Troilus and Cressida to meet and it’s anticlimactic. 

so yeah and then we tried– we used that to kind of paint the picture of how the rest of the citizens of Troy felt about these people too. So you know Aeneas is “yaaayyy” and Antenor is “yaaayy” and Hector’s like “WOOAA” and then Paris is just silence. No one cheered for Paris because he started this war! And he came in, you know, everyone else is being real modest. Paris comes, in no one’s praising him, and he’s just doing the most kingly wave you know he’s taking– acting like they’re all just too much, you know. And then I think our Helenus came in and prayed and like, ate a leaf or something, I remember it was kind of funny. 

And then of course you know Troilus comes in. you know, in the in the production we had we didn’t have that much focus to it but at the Royal Shakespeare company’s it was they were so funny with Troilus’s entrance because– In ours it was kind of like they couldn’t hear what I was saying, but when they did it they had that level of Troilus could hear Pandarus and so he gets really awkward and like tries to do this really macho walk and ends up tripping, drops his helmet. and just like then there’s someone that’s got like a bowl of water they’re all coming in from battles, they all wash their face. and Troilus throws water in his face too aggressively.And you know it also really gives you a view into how Troilus acts when he’s trying to  impress someone. 

So I thought that that was super clever, and if I were in the show again or I was directing it again I would definitely, not steal that idea, but lean in to the idea of how do you portray these characters when they’re not speaking when they’re just being shown off. I mean it’s a difficult scene. It’s definitely not easy. they were times where I was just like “everyone just wants me to shut up and leave, I want to shut up and leave, but I can’t,” But you know people love Pandarus, they always do.

Lee: Were there any other specific topics you wanted to hit on here?

Bronwyn: I mean it doesn’t really have to do with this scene necessarily, but more why I love this play is the theme of taking advantage of people and of time. time is a huge theme in this play. Ulyses talks about it for seventy plus lines. and everyone kind of alludes to it. it’s interesting if you look at everyone’s arc and how most people in this play get abandoned and get tossed aside. Thersites is seen, his last little bit is fighting a bastard then running off. He could be dead, we don’t know. We’re never told. 

And then you know Hector is massacred by many people when he’s unarmed. you’ve got Cressida who is like “oops women suck,” and then she disappears like a good twenty minutes before the play is done. and then Pandarus makes it to the end and he has been the person everyone’s been coming to asking favors of the whole time and at the end he’s spat at and told you he’s the scum of the Earth basically and his whole epilogue is about people come they ask and then you do what you’re supposed to do and they don’t like it. And you know what a world is that. The struggle with Achilles ends seeking his fame, and Ulysses saying “time is like a fashionable host”  and “Those scraps are good deeds past; which are devour’d/ As fast as they are made, forgot as soon/ As done: perseverance, dear my lord,/ Keeps honour bright.” So this idea that you have to be doing something all the time to ramain legitimate and remain in the public eye is something that I think is very akin to right now as well. how just, time and people chuck you away. It’s a very sad lesson from the play and obviously it’s all framed from war time, but I do think it resonates with me. you know there’s a lot you can’t take away from this play and be like “I’m going to put this into my life,” because it’s about the Trojan war. but there are some themes that really still hit hard and I think that that’s one of them. Just read Troilus and Cressida. Or actually, see Troilus and Cressida. Buy the RSC’s DVD of Troilus and Cressida and watch it! because it is a play that is so, so looked over and so often looked down on. And yes it has problems, but that’s what makes it really unique and really special. It’s a hell of a play, it’s a hell of a play.

Lee: Do you have any projects you want me to plug?

Bronwyn: Well I’m actually directing two radioplay versions of Shakespeare’s plays and one of them is Troilus and Cressida. I don’t have a date for any of these. The other one is Love’s Labours Lost which Lee will be performing in as well. I have no dates, just trying to secure actors at this point.

Lee: Well listeners, keep an eye out for that. Who knows when this episode will be coming out, so maybe I’ll put a date in the description. Bronwyn, thank you so much for joining me and for waking up extra early in the morning to make this happen.

Bronwyn: Oh my gosh, Lee, anything for you. Always such a joy.

Lee: I don’t actually have a closer

Bronwyn: Oh

Lee: Uhh…curtains?

Bronwyn: Uh, curtains.

Lee: Goodbye, audience.

Bronwyn: Goodbye.